{"id":16082,"date":"2019-06-21T09:39:49","date_gmt":"2019-06-21T13:39:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.kaspersky.co.uk\/blog\/transatlantic-cable-podcast-97\/16082\/"},"modified":"2019-11-22T09:59:00","modified_gmt":"2019-11-22T09:59:00","slug":"transatlantic-cable-podcast-97","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.kaspersky.co.uk\/blog\/transatlantic-cable-podcast-97\/16082\/","title":{"rendered":"Transatlantic Cable podcast, episode 97"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The <em>Transatlantic Cable<\/em> podcast is nearing its hundredth episode \u2014 man, how time flies. For this week\u2019s edition, Dave and I split our time between the consumer space and the legal world.<\/p>\n<p>To start things off, we look at a newly placed FCC complaint against AT&amp;T, T-Mobile, Sprint, and Verizon for selling customer data to third parties. This story ties to a past podcast topic \u2014 the location-based data that can help bounty hunters (or those with the money to spend) to track a user\u2019s location.<\/p>\n<p>From there, we jump into the story of a lawsuit against Amazon for an Alexa recording a child without consent. After that, we head over to the music world, where a hacker threatened Radiohead with the release of minidisks from OK Computer. Instead of paying the ransom, the band released the tracks on the Internet for all to see (for a fee).<\/p>\n<p>To close things out, we discuss the deepfake of Mark Zuckerberg that went viral after showing up on Instagram.<\/p>\n<p>If you enjoy the podcast, consider subscribing and sharing with your friends who need more regular updates on security. For the full text of the stories, please visit the links below:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vice.com\/en_us\/article\/a3xaez\/fcc-complaint-against-att-verizon-tmobile-sprint-location-data-selling\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer nofollow\">AT&amp;T, Sprint, Verizon, T-Mobile hit with FCC complaint over sale of phone location data<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.seattletimes.com\/business\/amazon\/suit-alleges-amazons-alexa-violates-laws-by-recording-childrens-voices-without-consent\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer nofollow\">Suits allege Amazon\u2019s Alexa violates laws by recording children\u2019s voices without consent<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/threatpost.com\/amazon-alexa-secretly-records-children\/145708\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer nofollow\">Amazon Alexa secretly records children, lawsuits allege<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.grahamcluley.com\/radiohead-refuses-to-pay-150000-ransom-for-hacked-recordings-releases-them-instead\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer nofollow\">Radiohead refuses to pay $150,000 ransom for \u201chacked\u201d recordings, releases them instead<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.vice.com\/en_us\/article\/ywyxex\/deepfake-of-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-fake-video-policy?utm_source=reddit.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer nofollow\">This deepfake of Mark Zuckerberg tests Facebook\u2019s fake video policies<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"\/\/html5-player.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/10206935\/height\/90\/theme\/custom\/thumbnail\/yes\/direction\/backward\/render-playlist\/no\/custom-color\/87A93A\/\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" width=\"100%\" height=\"90px\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<div class=\"podcast-subscribe\"><a data-omniture-download-button-type=\"TrialBuilds\" data-omniture-product-name=\"podcast-itunes\" class=\"itunes\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/talk-security\/id909407206\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.kaspersky.co.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/plugins\/kaspersky-embeds\/img\/button-subscribe-apple.png\"><\/a><a data-omniture-download-button-type=\"TrialBuilds\" data-omniture-product-name=\"podcast-spotify\" class=\"spotify\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/1VGCKlOoQ9C24dJiCHGTK5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.kaspersky.co.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/plugins\/kaspersky-embeds\/img\/button-subscribe-spotify.png\"><\/a><a data-omniture-download-button-type=\"TrialBuilds\" data-omniture-product-name=\"podcast-rss\" class=\"rss\" href=\"http:\/\/talksecurity.kaspersky-podcasts.libsynpro.com\/rss\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.kaspersky.co.uk\/blog\/wp-content\/plugins\/kaspersky-embeds\/img\/button-subscribe-rss.png\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> So to start things off today, Dave, let\u2019s take a look at a story that we covered a while back that was on Motherboard, talked about how telco companies in the US were going to be in a little bit of trouble, like they were selling their data openly to bounty hunters and the people who might not really need location data based on a user\u2019s cell phone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah, we did cover the story. Well, I think I think this story on an offer quite a few weeks ago, but it\u2019s been sort of bubbling under the surface, isn\u2019t it? And I think now, it\u2019s kind of come to a head with the story, basically, as you mentioned, and kind of wrapped up there with the term through a complex network of kind of middleman and, and other companies. Large telcos in the US have been selling privacy and location data to bounty hunters, law enforcement agencies, all without warrants and things like that. So I was kind of waiting for a lawsuit to come off the back of this, I was surprised it took so long, to be honest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> But I think in this kind of case, this is really a bigger fish to fry, where things start to look at a complaint to the FCC, which is in charge of, you know, all this, this data and these types of things done on people\u2019s phones, I think what pops out here to me is just, it\u2019s not just the small companies that you would think about doing this. These are the biggest carriers in the US. Some of them are global companies as well, you\u2019ve got AT&amp;T, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, all which have a decent sized international footprint, and is something really that we\u2019re starting to see companies talk about more, I think, especially where, you know, the public talk about more, especially as we\u2019re looking at things like stalkerware and things like that and how this data was openly available to people that you just paid the money to get the input.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019m actually surprised that this story isn\u2019t as big as I was expecting it to be. Maybe it is over in the States, Jeff, you, you\u2019d have a better sort of understanding of it, then myself, but it is something that I think just felt like from a story point of view kind of got brushed under the carpet a little bit. And, you know, we had the big Cambridge Analytica story, which popped last year, year before, something like that. And that was a huge scandal. But this, I think, you know, potentially is worse, because this has been going on for a long, long time. And also, you know, Facebook weren\u2019t aware of Cambridge Analytica, whereas, you know, you have these large companies selling data to smaller companies through this, like, complex network. So, you know, it is strange to me that this hasn\u2019t kind of bubbled up further, and that people aren\u2019t sort of questioning it, it\u2019s good to see that people are starting to get a bit concerned about this sort of information being publicly available, or say, not publicly available, but available to the highest bidder.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> So, where this comes in with this comes down to the thing where people really, you know, don\u2019t get carried too much about privacy until it impacts them. Yeah. And I think when you\u2019re looking at something like this, you know that the Wu Tang Clan said it best, you know, cash rules everything around me. And I think that\u2019s what comes up to these telco companies. And even going back to, you know, a book that I had started to read that I bought a black hat a few years ago of American spies, and why you should care based out of the University of Cambridge, this was a, you know, a doctorate paper type of thing turned into a book. And what it talked about, was just allowed the, the deep level of, you know, information sharing from telco companies when it comes to the government. And when you look at it in another light, can you make money off it on the private side? Yeah, you can. And I think this is one of those things where you see more money corrupting types of things of where this goes on of, you know, this isn\u2019t a case of Facebook, where if you aren\u2019t paying for the product, you are the product, you pay for your cell phone data on it. It\u2019s just a matter of the technology coming, and being able to give more data back to make more money off and clean more data. So I think this is something that\u2019s really worth keeping an eye on in the US, this isn\u2019t really getting as much giant coverage, as you would expect. It\u2019s more of the motherboard in the New York Times both of which New York Times a big publication, but it\u2019s not getting the giant outrage of people because people rather see bad news concerned to my president based upon ratings versus something that impacts every single American holding a phone, potentially.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Although you kind of touched on something there when you say, you know, it doesn\u2019t affect me, if it if it doesn\u2019t affect me, it doesn\u2019t concern me. So, you know, a lot of people sort of dismiss it. And I think, because people don\u2019t see tangible results of the back of this, perhaps that\u2019s why there isn\u2019t such a large outcry about it. I mean, you know, if the Cambridge Analytica thing was probably hit close to home, because it\u2019s Facebook, but I think, you know, a good analogy, and I know, we need to go to the next story. But a good analogy is, a lot of people say, with passwords, like, you know, they \u2014 a lot of people have really rubbish passwords, and they didn\u2019t do anything about it until I hacked or, you know, their, their accounts are compromised, and then all of a sudden, they might have, you know, go do something about this. Is it a similar sort of thing, you know, people don\u2019t care until their accounts compromised, and they lose money or social media accounts hacked. And it\u2019s only when they\u2019re kind of spurred on to do it by external factors, do they actually bother to do change your password or anything? So similar sort of scenario, it wouldn\u2019t surprise me if that\u2019s the mentality behind it with a lot of people?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yeah. And I think that\u2019s, that\u2019s really one of the cases there. And, you know, let\u2019s see what happens with that keeping the legal side, we\u2019re going to go over to another favorite topic of this podcast, Alexa.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amazon, Alexa, yes. Stories from the <em>Seattle Times<\/em>. I\u2019ve seen this crop up a few times, actually, this story. And he\u2019s talking about how a lawsuit has been filled in Seattle regarding Amazon recording children against their wishes. Well, not against their wishes, but without consent. Basically, this story is, I think, going to test Amazon little bit. It\u2019s, it\u2019s certainly something that\u2019s never cropped up before. So the basic premise is that you say you, Jeff, I don\u2019t you don\u2019t want to have them. I think you have one, don\u2019t you? Say you bought one and you know, you sign a contract, blah, blah, blah, as you normally do when you purchase these things. But then your son or daughter uses the Amazon Alexa is then recording and storing those recordings for a certain period of time. And that\u2019s where the class action potential class action lawsuit comes from? Because in what is it eight states in the US, consent has to be asked for first before making sure that these recordings are stored? Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yep. And I think with this one, it\u2019s really just one of those things that how you say this, right? You know, this is a really interesting case of where technology isn\u2019t keeping up with the laws \u2014 or the laws aren\u2019t keeping up with technology. Sorry about that. And when you look at this, I think this is the problem we\u2019ve always had with Alexa. Yeah, definitely. You know, I think we\u2019ve talked a lot about what could go wrong with it. And, you know, to be honest, I think this is something that people have a right to be concerned about. And this isn\u2019t a spot where you see it as a normal like, Oh, this is just an ambulance chaser trying to get some money out of it. This is somebody actually proving a point that the terms of use of Alexa might not be legal, because yes, it\u2019s for the end user. In the terms of traditional contracts. The end user is the person who buys the product. That\u2019s right. However, when it comes to something like Alexa, where anybody in the house can use it when they wake up Alexa by saying Alexa and then searching something. Hell, I\u2019ve seen it too much with my nephews and my kids and my frickin mother\u2019s house and they start using it all the time. Or my brother in law\u2019s house where his kids used to try to play fart sounds, it took them only five minutes of them hooking up the Alexa to try to have it make a fart noise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s what you gotta do as a kid, but you hit the nail on the head, don\u2019t you know, as companies kind of push forward and sort of test the boundaries regarding privacy, legal issues, states and governments are slow. And that\u2019s not because they you know, just slow to pick these things up. I think it\u2019s just the way they legislate. I\u2019m going to say that the legal system is just generally slower, right? I mean, you know, companies are agile in nature, a lot of them these days, and they kind of push forward. And then, you know, law catches up with them and starts to sort of constrain them in a little bit. I think, yeah, I really don\u2019t know where the story is going to go. And personally, it\u2019s, it\u2019s blindingly obvious. And I\u2019m surprised it\u2019s taken this long with Amazon Alexa being out for, for someone to notice this. But, you know, it\u2019s gonna be a real test, I think. And I\u2019m quite keen to follow this one and just see what happens off the back of it and see if because I think at the moment, this is, it\u2019s just one complaint, but they\u2019re looking to turn it into a class-action lawsuit, which you, Jeff will probably have a better understanding of how that works. So, it\u2019s going to take even more time. But a class action lawsuit will mean that if I\u2019m right, that it will be open up to anyone to join this lawsuit actually, you know, you could join yourself. And I think you remember you telling me you got back a pack of beer ones from Costco. Yeah,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I got beer and Red Bull. And like, I don\u2019t know what was in the thing. But, you know, look, when I get still drink energy drinks, it was awesome. But like, I still drink beer. So at least from what I remember of it. Yeah, but, but I think what this one, it really goes, what we\u2019ve talked about in a while is, as you\u2019re putting these devices into your home, you know, I don\u2019t care about the company side of it for this this talk right now, what it is, is, as a parent, bring something to your home, or as a consumer, what are you doing? What are you trading off to have this divide, you can make something buy something easier. And maybe that\u2019s just us being a bunch of grumpy old men and get off my lawn. But at the same time? You know, I think the more and more we talk about this, the more and more it\u2019s becoming something where there\u2019s actual real world repercussions about this that, you know, you\u2019re looking at this now, and you\u2019re talking about a kid being \u2014 an 8-year-old boy \u2014 being recorded. Now, this is a lawsuit about it. But imagine this now, if you multiply the number of Alexis at homes, how many kids were actually recorded? Yeah. Yeah. I guess a beep ton.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah. So that\u2019s, I think that\u2019s where this is going to get interesting. And, you know, we\u2019re at the initial stages, right, you know, we literally just got the starting gate. So this is going to be a story that\u2019s going to run for a fair while I\u2019m, like I said earlier, I\u2019m quite keen to follow this one. But anyway, let\u2019s go away from the legal side of things to something that\u2019s a bit more sort of \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Oh,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014 yeah, we love lawyers. Jokes aside, the next stories from our friend Graham Cluley, and I\u2019d like this one, so Radiohead has refused to pay $150,000 ransom for, quote, marks, hacked recordings, and has instead released them not for free for 18 pound which is what I don\u2019t know $22 something like that is a really interesting story because I don\u2019t think they were hacked reading a story I think someone stole some may gotta remind me here is a mini drive.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yeah, so I think this is really an interesting thing because it\u2019s kind of funny. Radiohead, still a big band and an interesting spot on his how they\u2019re addressing the whole setup of potentially somebody stealing their stuff in trying to extort them is instead of paying the money which they can do they\u2019ve got a lot of money as a band for the for the B-sides, or outtakes if you will, have a lot of things on their OK Computer album and just put it out there for play a place of sale kind of mocking the attacker at the same time saying hey, let\u2019s see if this was really worth the money you would have had us pay that we didn\u2019t want to pay which I think is I think it\u2019s pretty cool it\u2019s kind of like on some levels it\u2019s the you know if you do this to the system at hand, but it\u2019s also something that\u2019s pretty cool when it\u2019s you know, if you\u2019re a fan of this maybe it\u2019s worth buying some of this I would have never seen the light of day i i don\u2019t know i don\u2019t care that much about it. So I wouldn\u2019t be the one buying it. But if you are, hey, it\u2019s your money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Up until the 18th of July I think we\u2019ve got it on. I\u2019ve got to admit I\u2019m no Radiohead fan and Jesus Christ, this is one hell of a long time call it an album but series of discs if I remember rightly a mini disc something like 500 meg capacity and is 18 discs. So that is a lot of audio even Radiohead themselves say that this is, sorry, very, very long. So I mean, you\u2019ve got to be like a super ardent fan to even be bothered to listen to this. Apparently, this is just a noted audio of people talking and you know, music playing and things like that. So you\u2019ve got to be serious. You got to be a serious Radiohead buff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> And I like this. I like this quote from the lead guitarist Jonny Greenwood here. That is never intended for public consumption. parentheses, though some clips did reach a cassette in the Ok, Computer reissue. Close parentheses. It\u2019s only tangent. Tangent, tangent. teli. Tangent, tangent. Tangent teli. Interesting. Thought it was a new word today. And very, very long. Not a phone download. Rainy out, isn\u2019t it though?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah, I\u2019m going to Google search that in a minute and find out what it means. Maybe it\u2019s a typo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Internet\u2019s hard. But I think I think it\u2019s definitely a cool thing. And it goes to show like, you know, granted, this isn\u2019t a ransomware case, but it\u2019s something being held as a ransom. So similar what we say but ransomware don\u2019t pay for it. And these guys are sending a big F-U. And they\u2019re going to make money off it to on the other side. So instead of losing money, they\u2019re probably going to make a few bucks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah. And before we go to the next stories, it\u2019s also worth pointing out that I suppose Radiohead in a way are in a privileged position, because they can do this, you know, they can just say whatever, you know, release, it doesn\u2019t matter. I don\u2019t care. But if it\u2019s a small band with like, audio recordings and things like that, how would that be, you know, if someone got hold of small bands, audio clips, recording sessions, and there was only that recording? How, would that band react? I don\u2019t know. But you know, it. Thankfully, that\u2019s not happened here. In this case, Radiohead, just two fingers to the hackers just said, Do what you want. So it\u2019s quite funny, but I suppose take my hat off for a second and try and look at it from another point of view.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yeah, I think I think it\u2019s just interesting, to be honest. Like I said, it\u2019s like ransomware, if you pay it, you don\u2019t empower the criminals. And in this case, they gave the one-finger salute to the people. Speaking one-finger salutes, I kind of love this story for a number of reasons. But yeah, for those of you who haven\u2019t seen it. A deep fake video of Mark Zuckerberg hit Instagram recently, and it\u2019s just really a great video if you haven\u2019t seen it yet. But what it really does is it changes, you know, Zuckerberg, his voice to kind of talking about how they don\u2019t do a great job of protecting things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah, this one. You know, deepfakes are really creepy. I was it last year, year before we had quite convincing de fake of Obama, President Obama, maybe two years ago?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yeah. It was a really convincing one. And it showed how dangerous these videos can be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah. But I mean, prior to that, deepfakes were kind of around, but they were really sort of, they looked a bit rough and ready. And, you know, nobody took them seriously. And now we\u2019re getting to a point, I think we\u2019re kind of at that critical point where we\u2019re starting to see, I do remember when Photoshop first came out, and people thought it was stupid, and then as Photoshop sort of matured, and we started seeing better, sort of more realistic Photoshop. Yeah, everybody knows Photoshop images as well. We\u2019re at that point now where we\u2019re starting to see sort of realistic fake videos. I mean, we spoke about the David Beckham one, which that was crazy. That was really, really convincing. So this one this one\u2019s not. If you keep it muted, it\u2019s actually \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014 but I think that\u2019s the point, people don\u2019t listen to videos, or not YouTube on Instagram, they just watch it on the screen. And when you start seeing the comments about them for like, imagine this for a second: one man with total control of billions of peoples\u2019 stolen data, all their secrets, their lives, their futures. Think about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Somebody even seeing that pop up can be like, \u201cDamn, this is this is this is some deep stuff here.\u201d No pun intended. But I think when you look at it, this is what can happen. But I find the most interesting part about this is it\u2019s not it doesn\u2019t just test Facebook\u2019s ability with deepfakes. It tests their policy on what they\u2019ll do with videos like this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah. Because they\u2019ve originally said that they wouldn\u2019t do anything with videos like this. And they just leave them as any other video normally. But obviously, this one is with Mark Zuckerberg, and it is kind of taking the mickey out of Facebook\u2019s attitude to sort of transparency and privacy and things like that. And he\u2019s also pushing this bill posters, aspect to our installation. So that\u2019s quite interesting in itself. Yeah. Let\u2019s see what Facebook do with it. Because whatever they do \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I actually think they\u2019re going to leave it up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah, I think they will as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I think that I think at this point in time, they have to, because if they\u2019re looking to try to, you know, let people say that they\u2019re going to be serious about things with like elections, they can\u2019t just pick and choose when things suit their own their own business agenda. Instead, it\u2019s something that has it, you know, instill trust back in their two platforms. And when you look at this, you know, I think that\u2019s, you know, legitimate to have a concern that people should have when they\u2019re looking at something like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we\u2019ll have to see what happens. But I think you\u2019re right. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to get taken down or deprioritized.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yeah, I think looking at this, it\u2019s really something that will be cool to see what comes of it. And I think as we look at the series of stories today, you know, we end with some that\u2019s a common theme, you know, we\u2019re looking at privacy, we\u2019re looking at dealing with something of a data breach. And then we\u2019re also dealing with something that\u2019s more new age, and things that are going to be manipulated in the next, you know, this election cycles coming up in the US. Let\u2019s be honest, here, we don\u2019t have a good track record of not throwing mud at people to begin with, let alone now you\u2019ve got technology making the rounds. And so when I look at this, I think this is something we\u2019re going to see a little bit more of. And really need to see what comes of it. And you know, for that users would love to hear your thoughts on that because this week\u2019s edition of our podcast is come to a close. Hope you liked what you heard. If you did, please subscribe below or share with your friends. Sharing is caring, and it really helps the podcast and if you really want to help us out a lot, please leave a starred review on Apple iTunes. And with that, Dave, have a great weekend, man. Users, it\u2019s great you joining us. We appreciate the time. We\u2019ll be back next week with another edition of the Kaspersky Transatlantic Cable podcast. See you then. 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